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| <h1>IRC Conference log</h1> |
| <h2> |
| Jump in, the water is perfect:Enabling large migrations.<br /> |
| Alexandro Colorado<br /> |
| <a href="../slides/02-April-2005-OOo-Migration.pdf">Download slides</a> |
| </h2> |
| |
| <!-- ==================== --> |
| <!-- LOG STARTS --> |
| <!-- ==================== --> |
| |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| 1. Welcome everybody, I am Alexandro Colorado, Co-Lead of the OpenOffice.org Espanol (Spanish) project. To tell you a little bit about the Spanish community, it has been very consistant on the cooperation and the site has been on a continous improvement. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| One of the first documents was driven by Luis E. Velasquez who has a consulting business in Colombia and has succesfully migrated several organizations to OpenOffice.org |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Big thanks to E. Velasquez |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| btw |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Luis was basically who brought the information to this presentation. Migrating an estimate of 1300 clients over the pass 3 years to OOo, he has become one of the most important contributors when it comes to business deployments of OOo. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Luis also view the value that came out of the Novell document describing novells own migration. He brought it to me and we start producing the new business/organization area within OpenOffice.org |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| so slide #2 |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| So first thing is understanding the goals of a company |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Companies want things to be quick and efficient |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| if you are going to deliver a solution make it so that the company is enthusiastic about it, cost cutting values is important but that won't make anyone (away from the financial department) happy really |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| so gathering 'quick victories' is a good way to start. Areas like the iT department are easy to train and adoption rate is high enough. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Away fromt he IT dept. you can find people who might not have 'a solution yet' (common in Latin America where secretaries are still on typewriters) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| They would be keen to have a computer and won't see a migration barrier adopting OpenOffice.org |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Actually secretaries is a BIG part of the migration. In organizations everyone want's to convince the CEO or the high officer |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| but is really on the ground level where the actuall office suite is part of the core of the everyday work. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| If you train a secretary their effect on the organization is even greater than if you train a high officier. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Most organizations are self taught, they learn how to use an office suite from the guy on the other office |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| So we have a competitive advantage since -- well -- we are all about self teaching and collaboration. So we can provide a scheme to enforce this collaborative knowledge |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| this is one of the things Novell did with the Open Desktop Initiative -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| the Open desktop Initiative or ODI is what novell did to enforce the collaboration within the company |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| pocket of members will become the 'lead' which will push others to adopt the office suite giving a ground level support |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| having a site on the intranet also help since shy users might get the support without having to ask another employee |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| ODI was less intrusive so people that need it have options deliver with their needs |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| So ODI was a strategy that really hug all this different strategies |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| we got the direct support (chat, instant message, voice over IP) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| we got a documentation repository (Manuals, tutorials, knowledge base) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| and the on-site support |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| We should remember that this is all about the user |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| so we should take special care about user specific needs |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| a good tool to address this needs is to do a profiling of users based on their general IT knowledge, their position within the company and their common needs |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Also we might want to priorize the value of a certain department adopting the software right away, we don't make the user feel we are forcing them but more like helping them |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| users that a migration at this point would affect their business at that moment or that they are using x or y tool on excel that is fundamental and no replacement in OOo should take the migration on a slower pace |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| finally is costumization, when costumization will help users take the changes on a more digestive way |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| things like the UI |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| the common options or configuration |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| (i.e. install with the spanish dictionaries) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Novell in this area was consious of their users, and the most important thing is to let them know the progress and they are getting constant feedback |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| one thing was generating reports on the status of the migration through an announcement mailing list |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| and even taking into account the external community |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| this is very important and wise since it educates the employees of the open source benefits that might not be very tangible, like the community support |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| so we have a combination of chanels that provide a very positive enviroment for a good migration |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| users have the information/feedback, the on-time support and the Emotional motivation of doing this |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| this enviroment greatly reduce the resistance to change |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| so once we have the enviroment we want to upgrade our strategies, the core one being the support |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Here is a more indepth look at Novell's Open Desktop Initiative which mentions what I said earlier |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| a combination of communication channels through remote-support, on-site support, documentation, etc. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| strategies might vary greatly, users in latin america for example are more keen on on-site support |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| so an used strategy in one company was to hire school students looking for community service |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| they were trained and their job was making sure that the company transform their resources (documents, macros) to an OOo compatible enviroment within the office |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Another which lead us to the next slide |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| For companies that have make this change they highlight key tips on what to do/avoid during a migration |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| The first one is to automatize the most possible things, so either generating or migrating templates to OpenOffice.org native file format, is a good idea. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| 2nd tip is avoid changing the format several times, since it will break the document |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| 3rd and last tip is also a very important one and is build policies of use of file formats |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Novell's policy was primarily use the OOo standard document file format |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| the other step was for the organization to be aware of this position and encourage people to use PDF when they have to interact with outside companies |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| and only work with .doc when is about making document changes |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| alternativelly, in cases in latin america .doc files were replaced with RTF for external offices |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| So now we have a positive enviroment for a migration, a technical tips and advices on support, but to actually make sense for people in general is when you are providing a value added. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Exploiting OpenOffice.org XML capabilities can get back massive opportunities to create tools and integrate systems |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| XML is an extremely well structure language, and if information is correclty structure, then it can be manage |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| integrating OOo with the backend is what have make a lot of business not just migrate but also advance on their OpenOffice.org strategy from a productivity point of view |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Case in Latin America again, was integrating the OpenOffice.org documents to their intranet web application and make users provide content automatically |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| (they had Zope on their intranet) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Now we are facing a new version of OpenOffice.org which contains Open Documents and this also bring new benefits to adopting the suite |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| not just that but from a development point of view the Package Manager can also be a good start to migrate all the plug-ins and macros which make macro-dependant companies to jump to this platform which a relative small development |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- next slide -- |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Well I just wish you can all start a Happy Migration to OOo |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Q&A |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Questions??? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| I have one.f |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| go ahead |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| At the Unviersity of Toronto we had a support mailingl ist. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| list |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| People who had questions could ask them there, without bothering the sysadmin |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| the idea was that regular faculty would join the list |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| I mean, faculty who were more proficient with the software. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| Kind of like the users list at OOo. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| It worked well for us. :-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| Okay, I guess that wasn't a "question". It was an "idea" :-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| yes mailing lists and newsgroups are a good tools, maybe is cultural but a lot of people felt shy of asking questions that the rest of the university might see |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| they see it as recognizing their ignorance or something, so private options were always preffered |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| ok |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| but then again, this was a cultural difference |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| but mailing list could work also |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| is more channels of communications |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| *s |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| They had the convenience of being right in your office. You didn't have to leave to go find someone who might help. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: Thanks for the interesting conference. I have a question too, if I may |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| sure |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| Thanks. When providing support to governmential bodies and commercial companies, |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| it is a better practice to create a small support group |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>silver81</span>] |
| Hi jza : Thanks for the conference, Migration its done for our company since 2 years, i think that there is missing something in Novell Migration : the link between with past and present. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| or create a mailing list/forum/VoIP platform where anyone could participate frely? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#5a0; font-weight:900'>strilen</span>] |
| or one could combine instant messaging/e-mail between users and sysadmin and serve the solutions on the intranet. thereby both offering anonymity and practical advice. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| yes, this strategy has been used before, they train pocket groups within large organization and they become the SWOT team |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| like I said depends on which support scheme they are more used to deal with, usually government bodies that have internal support have already develop a support infrastructure, emulating that infrastructure might speed up the company of using yours. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| it's a very good presentation |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| I was an intern at Novell when they migrated towards OOo |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: Thanks. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| Thanks for the explatation and nice slides. May I post a question from the Netherlands? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| silver81: one thing is anonimity, other one is just users want to know they have resources and those are easy to find, so a knowledge base also works out great. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: sure welcome. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| Thanks. Any experience on how people find their way in public (OOo) resources for FAQ, documentation a.s.o.? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: as a co-lead for the OpenOffice.org Espaniol, we get lots of direct mails to Richard Holt (other leader) and me. It is an issue that navigation in the OOo site is not as good as it could be so we need to provide an overal map on where to find what. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| CorNouws: finding ressources in the OOo web site is always an issue |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: we have been working a lot on the navigation of the website since we want the articles and documents always remain visible |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| Indeed |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| OK, I understand. I do see the value of getting people in company involved, but |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| Cornouws: you can't imagine the volume of off list emails I have, for instance |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| DHTML menu's and randomizer are things that we have been looking closely as a good solution to keep content always on, similar to google dashboards |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| When you can use the already excisting recources, it save quite some efford. I do know it's not easy to find your way on the OOo-site, however, that mainly because of the huge huge contents! |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: another strategy that we are currently doing, is pushing for satelite sites of OOo, currently within the spanish community we have a News site (www.escritorioya.org.ar) and a documentation site (superalumnos.net) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: fortunately most documentation are on a 'friendly' license so you can build your intranet documentation site with just a few emails and 'make over' on your intranet so it becomes easy |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| CorNouws: yes, of course, but people are sometimes even afraid of the OOo site because they think it's for the geeks |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| --- for your users |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| So supporting a migrating company, can be do by offring them a customized portal to the useful public OOo-recources.. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| That sounds like a good idea. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| Make a portal that fits /your/ situation. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| jza: www.escritorioya.org.ar does not see correct |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| I agree. Maybe it would also be nice to have the ability to create more customized local xx.openofice.org sites |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>silver81</span>] |
| jza_: anonimity ? sorry i do not understand ?!?! You know, companies works all togetherq, exemple, we receive files from Michelin, we must send files to very big companies and we must keep a complete compatibility. This is only possible with a "gateway" like WIN4LIN, i am very surprise that Novell dont speak about that (sorry my english is very, very bad). |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: sorry is .com |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: www.escritorioya.com.ar |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| CorNouws: http://oooauthors.org is a good resource for recent docs :-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: Yes, I agree. Sadly, we have very little control of our DNS server. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| DanielC: I see. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| silver81: not quite sure of what you mean, for example this interaction can be profiled for example. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: Anything under 'openoffice.org' is limited to SourceCast, for good and ill. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| Just the possibility to include dynamically updated text would make a dramatic improvement |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| silver81: there is the document that needs to be sent from Company A -> B |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| silver81: don't bame me, but what company are you working for? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| silver81: then there are the doucments which need to be interchange A ->B and B -> A |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: I agree! It'd be great if we could have server-side processes. Things like PHP, Perl, etc. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| yes, or the best of them, python |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: But right now, if you want any of that, you have to use an external server :( That's what we're doing at oooauthors.org. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: OOoAuthors uses Plone, which is written in Python :-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| Is it possible to integrate external server content to xx.openoffice.org? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| silver81: if your position is the first one, then PDF is great, if it's the second one, then changing to a open standard might be a good solution (RTF, TXT, or even doc) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: Only under 'services.openoffice.org' |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| Yes, I think of plone as a very good platform |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| silver81: however, the key is to not change the docs back to sxw and then back to doc |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| DanielC: I think that collabnet has some 'public' JSP services you can use, but they are not documented or public |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| jza_: Well, that's still not Perl, PHP or Python. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| DanielC: for example a menu can be include if you put it on a page caled 'menuXX.htm |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| *called |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| DanielC: no, but is dynamic and modular at least |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| ok |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| great, any other question? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| a reply first: AietKolkhi: there are the local xx.openofice.org sites, for example the nl.openoffice.org. Good for the community and individuals, however not direct for company-support. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: when you say latin-america, you mean mainly mexico? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| So you suggest creating local community sites, like openorrife.nl? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: thats why we started rebuilding our company resources area, the difference is mainly the content of the documents thought |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: no, I mean latin-america (and spain), most of the migration projects where done in Venezuela, Argentina, Spain and Colombia |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: i see |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: we only have 3 studies in Mexico and were not documented well enough |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| jza_: any excange with OOoAutorhs for example? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| CorNouws, AietKolki: the community, as well as myself, are rather against creating sites bearing a "openoffice.xy" as a domain name. It really turns away people from the real community site |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: yes we have oooauthors.org/es we just started |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| but you can create sites like: "mycompanymigratestoopenoffice.com" ;-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| CorNouws: we also will exchange documents between the es.openoffice.org and brasil pt-br.openoffice.org |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_: I see. Is there a sugegsted way one could create for a local comunity? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| southerncross_: yes, thats what associate sites do for us, we do have actually a certification site within the spanish project |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>silver81</span>] |
| OK Ok ok !!!! Exemple many thanks to for going to explain to Michelin to use OOo format in the place off M$Office, so you will repeat it for all great rent vehicle, so you will do the same for all big trasport companies with thousand lorries and so on. A "gateway" is absolutly necessery, if not, you "have a dream " ;) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| I don't see why xy.openoffice.org isn't enough. But in case of a local company, really, as I said, mycompanymigratestoooo.com is good |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| southerncross_: http://openoffice.123aprende.com/ |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_: The only think lacking for me at xy.openoffice.org is the ability to include dynamic content |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| aietkolkhi: I know. But so far I don't think that migrations to OOo have been hindered by that point |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| jza: thanks, it's a very nice site |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: who does on-site support? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: I think here is where the consulting firms come up, they can provide the landscape for the migration |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_: You are right. So you would recommend having all the local resources published at xy.openoffice.org and openoffice.xy having redirected to xy.openoffice.org, right? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: companies that work with OpenOffice.org |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| jza: yes, consulting firms are usually the right players |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: I see |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| aietkolkhi: in fact, I would recommend not having openoffice.xy at all, but if you have it, yes, redirecting it to xy.openoffice.org is the right way |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| jza, all: thanks for the info, experience, ideas. I did start a consulting for a year ago. Dedicated OOo and SO. So the chat was useful indeed. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#080; font-weight:900'>CorNouws</span>] |
| It's sunny outside here, going to find out where my kids are. Hope to meet again. Probably a presentation of an interesting Dutch migration case? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_: Yes, I just mentioned openoffice.xy to avoid someone else creating a resource on it. I should not be advertised anywhere |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: look at our company support page: http://es.openoffice.org/programa/cd.html |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| just tp avoid what happened with openoffice.de and openoffice.nl |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| aietkolki: oh, I see. Okay, that's a different case of course |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: thanks for the link :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| Aietkolkhi: if you can books such a domain name go ahead and protect yourself (and us) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_: Yes, I will book it. And keep all the material/resources related to Georgian to ka.opeoffice.org |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| ka.openoffice.org, I meant :-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| aietkolkhi: sure. How is the KA porject doing? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_: I have built a glossary development tool that enables users to suggest their own Georgian translations of OOo glossary of terms and |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| also comment on others. it is located at http://gakartuleba.sapikhvno.org/glossary_en.php |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| I expect the glosary work to be done within 2 weeks and we will start localizing the actual modules after that period |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: what is your role in all that migration projects in latin america? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| There are some linguists, IT exteprts and translators participating |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| ok |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| good |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| as usual, if you need some help, please don't hesitate to ask that on dev@native-lang |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_: Thank you, I will |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: May I ask another question regarding the migration/support? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: yes please |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: I am coordinator of the OpenOffice.org Espaniol project, and a lot of people and organizations come for support, migration, adoption, events, etc. I guess I have gotten a lot of experience from other people within the community. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: Personally I migrate 600 machines to linux while working for the goverment in Mexico |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: I see. thanks. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: When helping a commercial company or governmential body to migrate, the commercial support groups will automatically need to switch to the new platform |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: but this guys do a life out of support and migration for OOo (and free software) so i have gotten a lot of experience from them |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| My question is wether to support such groups remain independent and commercial |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| or have them integrate in the main support community, and if yes, should their services |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: Yes is usually the ones that got a 'formal' trainning on the suite, like I said things vary a lot, since in Latin America, most people never get trainning on anything :S |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| remain commercial or volunteer-based |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: yes, this groups are within the company/organization, I think it should remain commercial |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: And offer theese groups free training migratin support, correct? :-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: usually this support is not exclusive (for example if you migrate to linux) so u support not just OOo but Mozilla, Linux, Gnome etc. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| a volunteer base on this perspective is optional but my guess is that is not stable enough |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| at least for business levels |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| for example if you got a mailing list, you ask 1 question, they respond you 2 or 3 days later |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| on-site is well instant |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| so there is definetly a value added there |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| specially because you are triying to get work done ASAP |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: Indeed. I am coordinating the l10n of the products you mentioned too. And due to volunteer bases, I a sometimes having problems finding people who will actively participate, everyone having a full-time job |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: I see. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: And the commercial companies often need to have the issue solved instantly |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: yes, but then again, companies do this things for a living so a lot of the issues might be repetitive |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| and they have experience on solving them fast |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: So these companies should also be supported in migration, right? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| jza_: depends on which companies are you talking to. Do you mean the service providers? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: the commercial companies providing rechnical support to various companies/governmential bodies |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Well they should have experience and competitive experts on these topics |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| they should do QA on their processes |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| jza_: I see. Thank you. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| I guess they do need some how of support themselves specially from the developers of the products |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| they should be on the mailing list all the time, and some of them they do. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: you have done a lot of things in latin america, now what is the next step or perspective in latin america? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| southerncross_, DanielC: It might not be the best place to ask this, but having version 2.0 so close, would not it be nice if we could give the whole site a new, better look? Like, a slightly more user-friendly colors, smaller font sizes, etc. The look commercial companies and newbie users would expect from a well established and advertised commercial product. But, of course, keeping the OOo philosophy and style.. Do you think it could be interesting for |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| sorry I've got to leave you for 5 minutes |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| I'm back asap |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: Check the list archives for dev@website.openoffice.org |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: well I am actually not even in latin america :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| DanielC: Allright |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: I am living in Romania right now :o |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: yeh, right :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: I have done the technology expo in Mexico late last year http://www.expolinux.org in Monterrey Mexico and this year we will launch 2 more |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: today is the FLISOL which is the latinamerica installfest (up to 8 countries doing a linux installfest) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: I was the country manager for Mexico |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| -- well actually I still am |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: my perspective is that Latin-America should start unifiying on free software collaboration and once we do that, we will have the tools to actually build something great, Brasil already doing that |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: adoption has come slow, but is comming and will eventually get there, which I think is important |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: right, i agree :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: as for me, hopefully next year I go to work to Tokyo :D |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: sure, i was about to say that. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| Bitdefender is about to open the asian office in Japan, and I am triying to get that job :p |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: when I establish a non profit organization, it should invite you to Japan |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: get that job! :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| in Japan almost no OOo migration :( |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| :D I'll be happy |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| khirano: when you going to invite Ian |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: yep :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| yeah he's here right now u know |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| he told me he is intrigue by the OOo group in Japan, and pushing INGOT there |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| jza_: right! INGOT! my NPO is planning to work with it. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| kza_, khirano: We will also be pushing INGOT in Georgian schools |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>silver81</span>] |
| "southerncross_: silver81: don't bame me, but what company are you working for?" Groupe AYME (500 employees) 53 agencies in France; 100 pc to Linux in 1998, more in 2001, more in 2003 with OOo. To day, about 220 PC with Linux and near 70 using OOo and some servers for VPN, stats, and so on... Jean Louis |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: great! :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: let us learn each other :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| silver81: oh, I see |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#05a; font-weight:900'>southerncross_</span>] |
| silver81 : forgive my ignorance, JL |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| hey! jza and Ian will be very busy with travelling world :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| khirano: I am Georgian Native-Lang project lead, and my name is Aiet Kolkhi :-) which community are you from? |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| :D |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| is an OOo World |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: I am from Japanese NL :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>ericb2</span>] |
| :-) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#088; font-weight:900'>ericb2</span>] |
| lgodar1 : ok |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#800; font-weight:900'>AietKolkhi</span>] |
| khirano: great, nice to meet you :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| AietKolkhi: nice to meet you, too :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| DanielC: you should join jza and Ian! don't go to M$! |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| he he he |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#008; font-weight:900'>DanielC</span>] |
| I'd love to travel as much as Ian and JZA do. |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#50a; font-weight:900'>silver81</span>] |
| Khirano: Yesterday Daniel win a silver fish from M$ on Marketing :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| silver81: i know :) :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| ok people I am out |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| need to catch up with Ian |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| thanks for good presentation! |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| oh.. and Christian Einfield also travel a lot |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#880; font-weight:900'>khirano</span>] |
| greetings to Ian |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| :) |
| <br /> |
| [<span style='color:#808; font-weight:900'>jza_</span>] |
| bye |
| <br /> |
